"I have long argued that the giving of offence, and even hate speech, should be a moral matter but not a matter for the criminal law. That is as true on the football pitch as on the streets. We should always challenge racism. We should also always challenge attacks on liberties in the guise of faux antiracism." Kenan Malik

EDL Score Massive Success Due To SWP Stupidity.


Last night the SWP held a meeting entitled ‘What To Do About The EDL’..or rather they would have done, if they weren’t forced to leave the Golden Star pub on Duke Street because EDL members were already there waiting to join in the debate.

Clearly the Socialist Workers Party’s internal communications department is not fit for purpose as someone obviously forgot to tell the Norwich branch that holding and advertising these kind of meetings encourages the EDL to attend which has been happening to the SWP across the country. Either that or the Norwich branch are just idiots. We think we’ll go with the latter.

30 or more members of the EDL turned out, more than the whole membership of the SWP in Norfolk and Suffolk.

And SWP numbers were only slightly swelled last night because begging posts had gone out on Facebook for ‘solidarity attendance’ once they’d found out the EDL were definitely going to be making an appearance.

By calling this meeting publicly without a thought for peoples security, without a thought for the safety of members of the public or the bar staff of the two pubs the SWP were thrown out of, they have exposed themselves once again to be the most clueless, manipulative and amateur organisation that exists on the left today.

Not only have their actions narrowly avoided serious harm to individuals, they compromised at least two anti-fascists from NCAG who found themselves having to engage in debate with EDL members in order to try and get people away safely from a situation that was growing more dangerous by the minute. The term ‘lambs to the slaughter’ springs to mind. Having said that, it was apparent that the older EDL members wanted to do nothing other than discuss and on several occasions prevented younger members from ‘piling in’.

A word of advice to less experienced folks..next time the SWP send you ‘messages of solidarity’ in other words ‘help us out’, reply with ‘fuck off’ and steer well clear…

Because if a group organises a meeting called ‘What To Do About The EDL’ and the EDL turn up and rout the meeting, clearly the organisers of said meeting don’t have a fucking clue what THEY’RE doing never mind what the EDL are up to!

Perhaps if the SWP gained the slightest understanding of the ‘white working-class’ instead of spending all their time giving platforms to ‘mad mullahs’ and marching alongside idiots dressed up as suicide bombers things would be a lot clearer?

And then again pigs might fly…

One thing is clear. Due to the SWP’s idiocy and amateur behavior, the EDL in this part of East Anglia will be buoyed up by last nights events, and unlikely to be disappearing from view anytime soon…

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88 responses

  1. Tim Knight-Hughes

    It’s nice to see such “solidarity” . . . . from comrades on the Left.

    August 19, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    • i@

      solidarity is not some owed duty or obligation, rather it is the recongition of ones own struggle in that of anothers.
      i know i can’t speak for everyone, but i can assure you that alot of the turnout was not down to any sense of solidarity.
      i look forward to reading your write up on the incident!

      and yeah…fuck the left.

      August 20, 2011 at 6:23 pm

  2. “The few of us that entered into a ‘debate’ with EDL members (and we told them exactly who we were) found we had more in common with THEM than we do with the SWP…and that’s a sorry state of affairs for us all to be in.”

    That is a “sorry state of affairs” to say the least. You should take a long hard look at yourselves and discuss why you hate other parts of the left more that you despise the racists.

    Oh and thanks for tweeting this on #edl thread, I bet you will have given the fash types on there a big boost for the weekend.

    August 19, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    • The SWP have given the EDL a boost for the weekend…in fact a boost for the whole bloody year! We didn’t post it on the EDL twitter page. Cheers.

      August 19, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    • ‘RickyTwotins’ (NCAG member) tweeted , ‘MrPaulStott’ retweeted it and now an EDL twit has twotted it

      August 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    • It’s not a ‘hate of the left’. The failure in SWPs position is made clear by the late Helen Lowe of Women Against Fundamentalisms. As far as I am concerned, I support her criticism. I can’t speak for NCAG, but from what I can gather, generally other Anarchists I have spoken to feel the same.

      I quote Helen Lowe of Women Against Fundamentalisms’ salient points about SWP for you now:

      “Although the left may be able to point to anti-racist and anti-homophobia campaigns they have been involved in, these are still kept separate from what they see as their ‘main’ activities. How else could they so boldly embrace an alliance with Muslim fundamentalists when they launched Stop the War? In that context, challenging homophobia was ruled off the agenda. Now the we see the same thing again in United East End.

      What seems to be beyond many left groups is the capacity to understand the dynamics at the intersections of race, ethnicity, class, gender and sexuality, which is why they can’t grasp the problem of religious fundamentalism or the crucial importance of defending secularism.

      At the United East End protest demonstration in June, a couple of WAF members gave out a leaflet headed ‘No to Fascism, No to Fundamentalism’ in Stepney Park. Most of those present were young Muslim men. I entered into friendly discussions with some of them, asking: where are all the women? and suggesting that if their girlfriends, mothers, sisters and so on had come along, the demonstration would be twice the size. Some of them seemed quite receptive.

      The only opposition I came up against was from SWP members. A couple of them turned quite nasty and I was told self-righteously that this was not the time or place to discuss fundamentalism.

      After the demonstration I began an email correspondence with the convenor, raising concerns about homophobia at the East London Mosque. I then went to a United East End meeting in July but there was no space at the meeting to discuss these issues.”

      I think this explains very clearly the dangers and problems in standing with fundamentalists at a community level – as the SWP do (and by default, the UAF).

      This is not an easy position, but it is the ethical position.

      It’s certainly not infantile to discuss this openly.

      August 19, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    • Basically, James Doleman is here attempting now to lay the blame for what happened to the SWP on the NCAG.

      This is an infantile deflection and twisting of what happened.

      Here Doleman is complaining that ‘the fash’ will exploit what happened because someone tweeted this article? That has to be the most ridioculously out-of-touch understanding of past anti-EDL provincial meetings organised openly, without due care and attention to the strong likelihood of a small army of EDL supporters turnign up and baying for SWP blood.

      James Doleman. Are you completely unaware of how EDL have in the past routed and threatened violence against those who would organise openly against them? Have you not seen or heard already of how the EDL have organised themselves against the SWP or any other provincial anti-fascist meetings?

      Here are two examples for you to see for yourself.
      There are more, but I don’t have any more time to spend looking for links

      2011: http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8958532.Violence_at_Brighton_anti_fascist_meeting/
      2010: http://libcom.org/forums/news/edl-crash-anarchist-meeting-03072010

      August 19, 2011 at 3:54 pm

  3. The ‘solidarity’ was there ‘nice but dim’…it came in the form of helping the SWP avoid getting their faces scraped across the pavement due to their own stupidity.

    We don’t consider ourselves ‘on the left’.

    As you were…

    August 19, 2011 at 1:58 pm

  4. “We don’t consider ourselves ‘on the left’.”

    After reading your piece that makes two of us. More “in common” with the EDL than the SWP, honestly that is just infantile.

    August 19, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    • As we stated…’a sorry state of affairs for us all to be in’. Good day to you James Doleman.

      August 19, 2011 at 2:12 pm

  5. So tell us, what do you “have in common” with the EDL?

    August 19, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    • Neither of our organisations members are likely to convert to Islam any time soon?

      Rather than slate us for our criticisms perhaps you could address the SWP’s idiotic methods and suicidal tendencies? After all that is what the piece is about…but we believe in free speech so ‘carry you on boi’ as they say in Norfolk…

      Best wishes.

      August 19, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    • Why don’t you tell us what you have in common with the EDL, James.

      Are you, like us, against homophobia and the open persecution of people as they go about their daily business just because they happen to be gay?

      August 19, 2011 at 11:07 pm

  6. Shakira

    Thats actually really harsh…….yeah I dont agree with the SWP, but people like you cause more disunity. I am from tower hamlets, who are the suicide bombers and mad mullahs? you calling one of our scholars from east london mosque a mad mullah? Come say that in our tower hamlets demos and see the reaction YOU will get from the people of tower hamlets, and who the suicide bombers?

    August 19, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    • What should NCAG have done, Shakira? Allow the SWP to be attacked by EDL in a pub after they openly publicised an open meeting to organise against the EDL?

      And what is harsh about what NCAG have written? Criticism of the Norwich branch of the SWP for hosting an open meeting which was publicised openly, when there is already a long history of EDL disrupting meetings openly publicised as organising against EDL? Through their naivity, they have endangered everyone who turned up at that meeting. They were outnumbered by 30 EDL who were waiting for them.

      So tell me, what is wrong with criticising this type of organisational naivity, and direct endangerment of the SWP and additional supporters?

      August 19, 2011 at 3:14 pm

      • Shakira

        Like I said I don’t agree with SWP and find them rather annoying, criticising them is fine, my problem is who the fuck are they calling suicide bombers, and who they calling mad mullah, I know my imam from east London mosque sometimes works with them and forms a coalition, but what are alarm calling the imam of east London mosque a mad mullah…..like I said come to tower hamlets on 3rd say that aloud infront the boys you will be treated the way edl are.

        Oh another thing, you say boys in tower hamlets aren’t stupid, yh they ain’t, but don’t try break into any of our local businesses or burn our cars, there were anachist/squatters amongst the crowd of rioters that boys in tower hamlets chased out. Might turn into a riot but targets are police and edl…..and maybe the pub that hosted edl but das it

        August 20, 2011 at 7:30 am

  7. “Neither of our organisations members are likely to convert to Islam” I doubt the SWP is wither

    Your inabilty to to answer a simple question is telling. You said you had “more in common” with the EDL that with socialists, care to explain that comment?

    August 19, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    • James Doleman – in as much as anarchists refuse to stand with religious fundamentalists. And it was not ‘socialists’ as you have written – it was one socialist groupiscule – the SWP. You may not extend the criticism of SWP to ‘socialists’ generally. Have you read the Women Against Fundamentalisms critique of SWP yet?

      August 19, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    • Here is a link to the entire Women Against Fundamentalisms ‘No to fascism. No to Fundamentalism’: http://womenagainstfundamentalism.org.uk/nofascism.html

      August 19, 2011 at 3:39 pm

      • So you agree with the EDL about muslims then. Is that your point?

        August 19, 2011 at 4:10 pm

  8. NCAG – perhaps it’s better to qualify your ‘in common with’ statement within the main text, so that others don’t choose to focus their anti-EDL ire upon NCAG and ignore the naivity of the SWP in putting themselves and anyone who joined them in their anti-EDL meeting in such physical danger.
    Given the EDL’s routing of various anti-EDL meetings in 2010, one would have hoped that the SWP had learned what the EDL response would be.

    August 19, 2011 at 3:43 pm

  9. Yes you’re probably right there Luther Blissett, we wouldn’t want people to miss the wood for the trees so to speak. It was actually a reference by one of the two NCAG members there last night in respect of ‘class’ and the social-aspirations that ‘class’ gives or takes away depending on your view point.. We should have elaborated more on it. So it’s being removed as opposed to being rehashed…

    August 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    • Good one, NCAG – If I was a betting man, I’d bet a homemade lunch for everyone that Malatesta has already begun an essay on that very subject, lol 😉

      August 19, 2011 at 4:17 pm

  10. This is the paragraph removed from the above article

    “But the worse part of the situation last night? The few of us that entered into a ‘debate’ with EDL members (and we told them exactly who we were) found we had more in common with THEM than we do with the SWP…and that’s a sorry state of affairs for us all to be in.”

    August 19, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    • You can remove it (which is the right thing to do) but do not harbour any illusions that it has been forgotten.

      August 19, 2011 at 9:18 pm

      • Marcus Clarke

        James Doleman, nobody here gives a flying fuck whether you still have the ability to remember or are showing signs of Alzheimer’s. Exactly why is a paragraph about class giving you the tizzies? Get a fucking life.

        August 19, 2011 at 9:31 pm

      • We’re fine with you remembering many of us share the same class and life experiences with members of the EDL as opposed to members of the SWP. Bring it up James when ever you like.

        In terms of the EDL round here we share something else in common that the SWP don’t…members who belong to ‘ethnic minorities’…

        You’re welcome to remember that too, and infer whatever conspiro-crap you choose to as well.

        Cheers.

        August 19, 2011 at 9:45 pm

      • Which bit about ‘anarchists oppose the fundamentalist authoritarian anti-feminist, anti-LGBT clerical fascists within each and every religion including Islam’ did you not understand?

        August 19, 2011 at 9:46 pm

  11. To be clear, anarchists are unlikely to be showing solidarity with the Khomeni Al Quds march, unlike SWP. Although anarchists recognise the need to show solidarity to Palestinian and Israeli people, the anarchist position is less simplistic and a more complicated postion.

    Solidarity necessitates us not shifting from this ethical position in order to make alliances. Nor should anarchists remain silent about clerical fascism, subjugation of women, persecution of gays or other authoritarian rightwing tendencies within any religious or political group.

    Anarchists do and will stand in solidarity with the people of Tower Hamlets in the face of EDL agitations and provocations. Anarchists won’t stand in solidarity with homophobes, anti-feminists, antisemites at the same time as showing solidarity with the people of Tower Hamlets.

    Does that help to clarify the position ?

    August 19, 2011 at 5:02 pm

  12. *Or Islamophobes. That much is clear.

    Again.

    Anarchists do and will stand in solidarity with the diverse people of Tower Hamlets in the face of EDL agitations and provocations.

    Anarchists won’t stand in solidarity with homophobes, anti-feminists, racists, antisemites and Islamophobes in order to show solidarity with the diverse community of Tower Hamlets. Is that clear enough?

    Feel free to add/take away from these hurried statements, NCAG.

    August 19, 2011 at 5:06 pm

  13. Blissett, good clarification. Hopefully it’ll cool the argument that’s threatening to break out here.

    August 19, 2011 at 8:27 pm

  14. Indeed Invictus, how dare anyone argue with someone who says he has “more in common” with the EDL that with a left group.

    Perhaps the author of this piece should reflect on which side he is on.

    August 19, 2011 at 9:32 pm

  15. Marcus Clarke

    I do hope James Doleman does not read NCAG’s ‘Class, Race, Identity’. He’d have a stroke.

    August 19, 2011 at 10:02 pm

  16. Emma

    “Anarchists won’t stand in solidarity with homophobes, anti-feminists, racists, antisemites and in order to show solidarity with the diverse community of Tower Hamlets. Is that clear enough?”]

    All of the above is as about diverse at Tower Hamlets will get mi’ laddie.. How ironic.

    August 19, 2011 at 10:04 pm

  17. squarepeg

    Thank you for an honest report of events. I am an EDL supporter, I’m not a Nazi, and I’m not racist. I’m glad the older heads managed to keep the younger one’s in order.

    August 19, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    • Emma

      I agree, so refreshing to read a blog from a Non-EDL supporter who sees it like it is. This kind of attitude if followed by all would be the answer to many of societies problems.
      The working class need a voice, and the more it is supressed the louder and angrier it will get.

      August 19, 2011 at 10:21 pm

  18. Kennington

    #Ken Keating on the Socialist Workers Party#

    August 19, 2011 at 11:11 pm

  19. Marcus Clarke

    Shakira what the fuck are you on about? If you are unable to read the piece why fucking bother to comment on it? It clearly says ‘people dressed up as suicide bombers’ i.e. those idiots on marches in London who wear pretend dynamite round their waists. In terms of Tower Hamlets and your ‘scholars’…where does the fucking piece even mention Tower Hamlets? Get a grip for fucks sake.

    August 20, 2011 at 7:42 am

  20. Marcus Clarke

    Likewise this isn’t the ALARM website…it’s the Norfolk Community Action Group website…Norfolk is no fucking where near London and Tower Hamlets.

    August 20, 2011 at 7:45 am

  21. Shakira. This website has nothing to do with ALARM. As stated above we are in Norfolk, 120 miles north of London.

    You are asking about our use of the words ‘mad mullahs’. It is in reference to Imams who preach political Islam…are you suggesting there are NO Imams who preach ‘political Islam’? As also stated by MC above the use of the words ‘marching alongside idiots dressed up as suicide bombers’ is indeed in reference to the idiots who turn up on Stop The War marches dressed up as pretend ‘suicide bombers’.

    Hope that clarifies.

    August 20, 2011 at 7:59 am

  22. Marcus Clarke

    Map of UK http://www.burnleycourierservice.co.uk/uk_counties_map.png

    August 20, 2011 at 8:27 am

  23. johnny

    shakira is an authoritarian…..and middle class mouth piece…

    August 20, 2011 at 2:13 pm

  24. pancho villa

    ok , i was there , this is what i had in common with the edl members i spoke to , we hated nazis , we hated radical islam (all religeouse leaders are cunts , we can take that for granted , muslim christian or jew , cos its all voodoo bolix !)we were against homophobia, we were working class people , mainly white working class people , mainly hetrosexual white male working class people , the kind of people that the mainly gay white middle class swpys hate , and blank at every oportunity . as members of the same social class we could converse freely without fear of some troty ponce playing the political correctness card , and at our own risk stopped the swapys from getting their stupid manipulative heads kicked in , with a lot of help from the older edl members who struck me as descent types who had genuinly come to debate with the swpys (they also prevented vilence from breaking out on at least two occasions), and good job they didnt , cos if they had they would have won! , i am an unashamed stalinist/mauist , we need to be talking to members of our own social class, and that is the edl , not middle class students or religeouse idiots, its no war but class war , and they should be our allies , not our enemies , these are the people whose children , brothers and sisters are being killed in colonial wars , who cant get a job because of all the cheap forighn labour , whos families will suffer because of the cutbacks , we have a common enemy , the rich ! we should be fighting together against the torys!
    But i tell you what the swpys did that realy pissed me of , they endangered their members , our members and thats not to mention the general public . that was seconds away from a wild west show , so what is it with the swpys ?,stupidity , recklessnes, manipulation , is it all just a game to you lot , playing with peoples lives and damn the consequences , i urge all my comrades to show NO solidarity with the swp in any other ill fated future enterprises. They are not to be trusted.

    August 20, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    • Biff

      Nice post so I would just like to add E E EDL ! Have a nice day 😉

      August 21, 2011 at 4:30 pm

  25. While many people will understand Pancho Villas sentiment and justifiable anger, NCAG are not, and unlikely to be anytime soon, larging it up with the EDL!

    Yours,

    Juan Miranda.

    August 20, 2011 at 7:28 pm

  26. pancho villa

    i just saw the mdl website , i am so angry , are fascists ok if they have a brown skin? is pedophilia ok if its done by a prophet? the swp are wall to wall shite! they are in my view a fascist organisation , thank god their members are a bunch of weirdo freaks with personality disorders who will never be able to run anything , i will definatly not be showing any support for them in any form from now on , and i do think we should cultivate links with the edl , i have said this befor , as of the two organisations the edl is the more progressive , with its line on racism , sexism and homophobia , unlike the mdl , we can always sever those links if they start wearing swastickers and goose stepping , the turning point is our views on the riots , the edl seem to take a slaveish line in support of the state , however i agree fully with them on their line on the colonial wars , they are an antiwar movement , we all need to be discussing these issues in detail , also they are a young organisation , they could turn into anything yet , but so long as the swp continue their good work the edl will continue to grow like a mad basterd.

    August 21, 2011 at 8:51 am

  27. Rick

    I won’t be meeting and engaging in talks with the EDL and I think it’s highly unlikely any other member of NCAG will either.

    The choices aren’t ‘the SWP or the EDL’…

    I’m proud of NCAG’s developing politics, and they are anti-fascist whether those fascists are white or black…working class or middle-class…

    August 21, 2011 at 9:57 am

  28. trinovante

    Some of you are missing the point here??
    Im EDL,im not racist,Nazi or right wing but i do have concerns about certain aspects of Islam,is that so wrong?

    Im not going to attack a person because nature decreed that they should be a different colour from me,or that they worship a different faith from me.
    What sense would that make? NONE,we are all poor bastards trying to get through life under difficult circumstances and attacking each other is fucking stupid!

    I will never be forced to believe in a thing that i find abhorrent and im afraid that certain aspects of Islam abhor me.
    If im ever at an EDL demo and a person shout’s ANY racial abuse i would smack them and hand them to the police,WE DON’T WANT WANKERS LIKE THAT!!
    Being British is not a fucking skin colour and any one who thinks different needs to read a fucking history book.

    We will never see eye to eye but we are not your enemies and i think that this article is a good basis for dialogue between groups of people who have different points of view.
    Remember people,we are the poor bastards trying to get through life while the government fuck us over!

    August 21, 2011 at 10:53 am

  29. pancho villa

    whether we like it or not comrades , we are now in a dialogue with the edl , that is the reality of the situation , i am not afraid to talk to anyone , i will not enter into a dialogue with a nazi , but i will with pretty much anyone else , if we refuse to talk to the edl all we are doing is forcing them into the arms of the ultra right wing , this is exsactly what the swp are doing , i say that we use the saftey and security of this forum to talk and exchange ideas , i for one share a lot of views with the edl , their are also some fundermental political differances , but i will not stick my fingers in my ears and say la la la , i think that is a luxsury no longer open to us , all i am saying is lets see what each other is realy about , the people i met and spoke to , the individuals , struck me as descent working class people , the kind of people i live with , work with went to school with and grew up with , i felt more comfortable with them than i ever did with certain other groups , i see no point in standing iether side of a road shouting mindless slogans at each other while the cops bang the overtime , i write this in solidarity with my comrades in ncag , i am not trying to create a schism , or recruite , or infiltrate , my first loyalty will be to my emediate comrades , my second to the social class that i come frome , our common enemies will always be fascism , racism and the rulling class who play us of against each other so that they can continue to lap it up

    August 21, 2011 at 11:16 am

    • trinovante

      Pancho,im EDL and i fucking detest Nazi’s,racist’s and general fucking idiots who think that they are superior to their fellow human beings,that is a promise not an empty platitude.

      I don’t ask you to agree with us but at least stop calling us Nazi’s(not you personally) and judge us by who and what we are.

      August 21, 2011 at 11:59 am

  30. Chad

    I think the point being made is that the similar circumstances and pressures lead the EDL to their conclusions as lead many anarchists and class war advocates to theirs. The ideas with regard to how to solve these problems that are then developed may be radically different from one another. But there is a lot more than most people would like to admit (on either ‘side’, no doubt) in common. We share the same problems, but opt for different solutions.

    August 21, 2011 at 11:17 am

    • Arthur

      Chad, I agree with you on that.

      Arthur.

      August 21, 2011 at 4:58 pm

  31. trinovante

    I say that we talk,not bloody fight each other,it’s stupid.
    I don’t speak for the EDL but you would be surprised to know that there is not that much between us.

    It’s not about “white working class”,it’s about THE working classes of this country.
    We are getting fucked over(sorry about the language but im angry)by the politicians and they are pissing themselves at our expense!

    I believe in democracy but Mp’s don’t,they don’t represent me and you,they’re out for themselves,you know it,i know it,so what is to be done?

    August 21, 2011 at 11:50 am

  32. pancho villa

    one solution , REVOLUTION!, we the people , take over , a government of the people , by the people for the people , based upon freedom equality and justice irrespective of race , religeon ,gender or sexual preferance , and eforced by a citizens militia, simples

    August 21, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    • trinovante

      This is where we differ Pancho,i want a government by the people for the people but revolution is not the way imo.
      Voter apathy is the problem and the fact that MP’s tell us what we want,they have not got a fucking clue!!

      I don’t know,no system of government is a complete success but you have to have structure.

      August 21, 2011 at 1:12 pm

      • Anarchism is ALL about structure http://infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ 😉

        August 21, 2011 at 3:03 pm

  33. NBLTFC

    One of the problems we face as working class people is that those in power are all from upper classes,they don’t have to live in the areas that are blighted with such things as mass immigration/radical islam etc.
    For them it’s a vote winner as they know if they let in as many people as they can they will get tyheir votes.
    They know the working classes gave up voting a long time ago so they ride roughshod over us time n time again.
    I dont think revolution is the answer as it would just end up in all out anarchy but we do need a party that has the best intentions for all n not just big business n minority groups.
    I’m also EDL by the way n I’m glad that you have sensible people such as Villa who is prepared to talk,I’ve been saying this for ages when in debate with those of a more left wing persuation,rather than screaming nazi at us why not engage in debate?
    I too hate racism/nazi scum etc just as I hate the islamofascists,if I thought the EDL was a white power movement I wouldn’t be involved,especially as Im in a mixed race marriage.

    August 21, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    • trinovante

      Exactly what you said.We are not Nazi’s or racist’s,we are British and there is NO colour or faith ban to being such.We are all human beings who deserve better,stop the fight and unite!!

      August 21, 2011 at 1:50 pm

  34. pancho villa

    i think we are puting the cart befor the horse a bit , we are no where near a revolutionary mass movement or party , i think the people gave up voting because they realised it didnt work , they voted for working class policies that disapeared the minute the politicians took their seats , look at the liberals and student fees as just one exsample , street movements dictate government policies , look at the suffragetes ,black rights , gay rights, the unions , the students , all these goups changed government policies by putting massive numbers of people on the streets and brawling with the cops , the rulling classes then got scared and made enough conscesions to keep their positions at the top of society ,(incidentally i believe in a central government too , but with highly devolved powers , down to housing estate level , let the people run their own communitys , most people are generaly speaking ok , no one wants to live in a feudal wasteland , i hope , trust me , i will make a great dictator………)
    So , we have some common enemys , the camerons , cleggs , millebands and maxwells not to mention militant islam and nazis , i think that is actualy a lot of common ground

    August 21, 2011 at 1:58 pm

  35. villa

    i think we are puting the cart befor the horse a bit , we are no where near a revolutionary mass movement or party , i think the people gave up voting because they realised it didnt work , they voted for working class policies that disapeared the minute the politicians took their seats , look at the liberals and student fees as just one exsample , street movements dictate government policies , look at the suffragetes ,black rights , gay rights, the unions , the students , all these goups changed government policies by putting massive numbers of people on the streets and brawling with the cops , the rulling classes then got scared and made enough conscesions to keep their positions at the top of society ,(incidentally i believe in a central government too , but with highly devolved powers , down to housing estate level , let the people run their own communitys , most people are generaly speaking ok , no one wants to live in a feudal wasteland , i hope , trust me , i will make a great dictator………)
    So , we have some common enemys , the camerons , cleggs , millebands and maxwells not to mention militant islam and nazis , i think that is actualy a lot of common ground.

    August 21, 2011 at 2:00 pm

  36. NorthEastEDL

    I am also an EDL member and can say I am NOT racist in any way, shape or form, nor will I ever be! I love this country and don’t want to see it turned upside down and destroyed by corrupt politicians for their own agenda!

    Fighting and name calling is not the way forward and it only causes intense hatred. I am sick of putting my case over for the EDL to hear the cry of racist thrown at me. To me this is nothing more than an excuse to end the debate because they have no other reply or a valid argument to what I am saying. Open debate is the way and only way forward. All groups should be allowed to put forward their case without abuse being thrown at them because someone dislikes what they are saying.

    Thats why I find this forum a refreshing change!

    August 21, 2011 at 2:18 pm

  37. trinovante

    Agree with Villa 100%,none of us are “bad” people but we are all put upon and it’s not right.

    August 21, 2011 at 2:18 pm

  38. villa

    oh , and invictus 88 , is their some significance to that name ?

    August 21, 2011 at 2:28 pm

  39. Well there we come to the crux of the matter Pancho Villa. The EDL, whether or not racist, and I prefer to view them as extreme nationalists and have never supported the UAF’s persistent bollocks that they are Nazi, they are still a million miles away from your particular politics as a Stalinist (I thought NCAG were anarchist though-I’m confused).
    What are your plans then? To join them in their mass tear up through working-class communities kicking shit out of the first Asian they see? What exactly is it you believe an alliance with the EDL would achieve? Are they going to campaign against the cuts with you? They support the Police, weird when you see them constantly fighting with them, and they are all ‘Queen and country’. Have you thought this through? Will you support them descending on Tower Hamlets to ‘peacefully protest’? Exactly why are they doing that? They say they have no issues with moderate muslims. Moderate muslims are asking them not to come.

    I like very much NCAG’s views on multiculturalism https://norfolknonaligned.wordpress.com/class-race-and-identity-politics-2/ and yes they are in a way similar to what the EDL are trying to get across, but if the EDL were seriously opposed to multiculturalism they would realize that it is the politicians, whether Tory or Labour, who have imposed this stupid practice on the country and they should take their grievances on mass to the streets of Westminster rather than cause havoc in our communities.
    While I agree that there may well be a lot of alright people in the EDL, no matter how hard these people try to persuade otherwise there’s someone in their midst who constantly let’s the side down and they’re back at square one again.

    And just why did the EDL try and attack an Antifa benefit gig in Leeds http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news7763.php?
    Antifa were demonstrating against militant Islam before the EDL even existed. They also hate the UAF so what are the EDL doing attacking anti-fascist gigs that have nothing to do with the SWP or their poodle UAF?
    There seems to be a lot of confusion on your part as well as the EDL’s. Neither you Pancho Villa or the EDL seem to know precisely what they are supposed to be.

    August 21, 2011 at 2:33 pm

  40. Those are observations by the way. Not slating anybody.

    August 21, 2011 at 2:39 pm

  41. “Whether we like it or not comrades , we are now in a dialogue with the edl , that is the reality of the situation , i am not afraid to talk to anyone”.

    You do not speak for the whole organisation Pancho Villa. We work on a consensus decision making basis so I’ll remind every one Pancho Villas views are his own.

    Unless this turns into abuse you can all talk till the cows come home and the messages will remain open.

    August 21, 2011 at 2:48 pm

  42. NorthEastEDL

    “To join them in their mass tear up through working-class communities kicking shit out of the first Asian they see?”

    I have been on demo’s and have NEVER seen anything like this happen. And I can speak for 99.9% of the EDL that they would stop this happening should some idiot(s) try it!

    “They support the Police, weird when you see them constantly fighting with them”

    The only time there has been trouble with the police is when they have caged them in. As you can imagine when dogs are set on you or batons used for no reason then tensions will run high. This is normally the case with the GMP! They maybe should get advice from the likes of Northumbria police who policed the Newcastle demo where there was not one arrest. The police in Newcastle gave us respect, they let us march and weren’t heavy handed which resulted in a peaceful day all round.

    August 21, 2011 at 2:59 pm

  43. NorthEastEDL

    And just to add, Newcastle was not just the only peaceful demo. The peaceful demo’s far out weigh those where there have been trouble!

    August 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm

  44. NBLTFC

    I can only answer personally,albeit as an EDL supporter,in regards to supporting the police over the recent riots was more to do with English working classes standing up for their communities,the same communities that the ob stood by n watched the rioters loot,burn n destroy.
    The police on the street have a hard job but their supperiors are politically correct idiots(to put it politely) only interested in fullfilling the goverments (whoevers in power) agendas,they care more about saving big business than saving peoples homes n small shops etc.
    Again in regards to the recent riots why were the English(and many of them were EDL) vilified as racist thugs for standing up for their community while at the same time armed Turks/Sikhs/Muslims were applauded as heroes?
    I for one do agree that the goverments/powers that be are our enemy,it’s hard not to agree with that statement but there needs to be a proper alternative,a party that isnt afraid to stand up for the majority white working class.
    We all know any party doing that will be labelled racist from the off but surely everyones entitled to representation,every other grouping has. Imo UKIP aint bad,anti EU pro British etc but once in power would they turn out just to be more Tories in disguise?
    On the subject of Antifa,I have never ever seen or heard of them standing up against radical islamists or the islamification of this country,I have heard though of them declaring war on the “nazi” EDL,perhaps that may be a reason for this “attack” your talking about though I don’t know anything about it as was not there.
    People seem not to realise that the EDL is made up of many differing groups,be that racial/religious or political but we have one thing in common n thats we are against the rise of radical/political islam n the betrayal of this country by the ruling classes,we dont fit into a particular box n I think nthats why so many either dislike us or dont understand us.
    Must say its good to be actually be able to have free speach on here as usually all you end up getting is a load of abuse n banned,fair play.

    August 21, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    • http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/07/295070.html?c=on#c99052

      That’ll be because those on the far-right BNP/NF etc who are hidden in your midst like to talk nonsense and have NO understanding whatsoever of the differences between anarchism and the looney left…

      August 21, 2011 at 3:34 pm

  45. Arthur

    I’m EDL and find it a refreshing change to see some dialogue instead of the usual hate and cries of nazi, racist etc. I too hate nazis and racists and would not support EDL if I thought this was the case.

    It’s big step to talk, even if we disagree, which on some points we will, so cheers.

    Arthur.

    August 21, 2011 at 3:09 pm

  46. Villa Loyal

    Norfolk, I admire your willingness to talk comrade, perhaps there are some true reds left after all.
    Firstly I am not EDL, I am UKFD.
    Why are you people giving the petit bourgeoisie SWP the time of day? They have an aristrocrat on the Central Committee? They are a classic popular front false flag operation, opposing the united front of the English working class.
    Look at the evidence.
    One of the most successful anti-fascist groups, the ANL, started but also disbanded by the SWP at the height of its success.
    The most succcessful anti-fascist organisation, AFA, a true united front, ruined by SWP entryism and the party reforming ANL.
    Stop the War Coalition, ruined by the entryist SWP
    Respect, toppled by….. guess who? That’s right, everyones favourite Trotskyists the SWP
    UAF, look at the groups who were involved in its formation, look at the unnatural prominence the SWP gained straight away

    The fella who said the EDL is nationalist, Queen and country? Nah, the EDL is more Church and King mate. You need to swot up on some British history rather than the eastern European or Spanish variety.
    You’re doing what everyone is doing (most because it suits their agenda) you are not listening to the genuine concerns, just paying lip service to a few, reactionary granted, chants. You know the EDL is probably closer to socialism than the SWP could ever be, it is run along localised lines, reporting to a central leadership but acting autonomously at regional level. Isn’t that closer to a true soviet system, rather than the dictatorial SWP method of issuing national dictats?
    You’d have thought that after 80 years in the UK the left would’ve moved on, but you’re stuck in a timewarp, intransient, you’re like religious fundamentalists who refuse to deviate from certain tracts. How many time do we hear about Gari-bleedin-baldi or Cable Street, I dunno about you, am always waiting for them to add the relevance to me as a working class Englishman? As Morrissey said, ‘it says nothing to me about my life’
    Contemporary communism will never gain a foothold in the UK< especially since we, as working class people, got our fingers burned in the 70s and 80s, falling trades union subscriptions don't lie. If you are true working class reds, you need to adapt, if you haven't achieved the revolution by now, sorry but it ain't gonna happen, you're going wrong somewhere, you must be

    Thanks for the opportunity of a reasonable debate

    August 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

  47. squarepeg

    I think the NCAG have every right to be angry at the SWP for drawing them into a dangerous situation, They and the UAF seem to have developed a tactic, of drawing EDL members into ambushes, and then claiming they got attacked. Then again they’ve been fomenting violence at demonstrations for many years.

    It’s one of the reasons the EDL developed as it did. We needed a form of getting our message out, and not get kicked off the streets or shut down by the state. If we managed to get a hundred thousand to march on Westminster, you could bet your mortgage it would go unreported in the mainstream media unless things kicked off. Even then our message would get skewed. The question remains though how do we progress from here.

    Remember it is a single issue group, and those of who have come to engage in dialogue here may have opinions on other issues, but they are just personal opinions.

    August 21, 2011 at 3:54 pm

  48. trinovante

    Peter Lee,do you have the capacity to debate,or will you continue to spew hate and blatant falsehoods against people who are open to a different point of view?

    You are the very worst of Nazi’s,you don’t like what i have to say?
    To stop me,you will try to get me banned,you will beat me unless i conform to your way of thinking,you will insult me and my famiy,denigrate me and call me an animal,you will call me a brain dead knuckle dragging idiot and given half a chance you would end my life!

    Call me a Nazi again??

    August 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

  49. villa

    i agree with all of the above , i must also point out that i am only exspessing my own opinions as an individual , i do not reflect the views of NCAG as a whole

    August 21, 2011 at 4:02 pm

  50. mark thomas

    To norfolknonaligned please search the web and you will see how EDL,SDL,CDL has been mistreated by the police in the pursuance of peaceful protest.SDL given a choice with each person escorted by two riot police …to get on coaches or get into prison lorries…SDL chose the latter and got bussed out of Edinburgh 20 odd miles…CDL forced out of wrexham in 2009 by GMP tau etc lots of batton injuries…EDL in Birmingham 2009 peaceful demo until a senior figure in the Respect party called on islamist youths to attack a peaceful protest,EDL put on double deckers and held for hours by WMP.
    The SWP etc have got a lot to answer to with regards the agenda they purue against the Defence leagues.SDL 2011 September 10th in Edinburgh…SDL have applied to march,cooperated with police ie changed date and venue ie SDL wanted to demo outside the Scottish parliament….the city council who let irish republicans and loyalists amongst other groups march without question.ban the SDL .please tell me what agenda the political elite follow ?

    August 21, 2011 at 4:14 pm

  51. NBLTFC

    Peter Lee

    The UBA were at no point an Antifa group,yes that discussion happened on Indymedia but they were not a far left group,just because they kicked off with the NF dont mean they were far left.
    The EDL has had run ins with the Front/C18 in London leaving one of the latter in a bad way after they disagreed with the fact that EDL has black/asian n mixed race members,
    Oh n that incident you were talking of with regards to antifa being attacked they said the leader of the group of EDL was mixed race so if a mixed raced group attacked an anti racist grup dont you think there must of been something else in it?
    Perhaps the reason being Antifa openly declared some kind of war on the EDL.
    It’s all bollocks anyway as we should all be standing up against militant islam n the islamification of this country anyway.

    August 21, 2011 at 4:39 pm

  52. Nobody said Antifa had anything to do with the UBA. They were both present in Trafalgar Square that day.

    August 21, 2011 at 4:45 pm

  53. Trinovante your email address is on the BNP membership list 2008.

    August 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm

  54. NBLTFC

    Were they?
    First I’d ever heard about it,if so fair play but what if anything have they done since then?

    August 21, 2011 at 4:51 pm

  55. NBLTFC

    C’mon people allow the discussion to carry on,’twas going well was that.
    Before the EDL was formed people had no where to turn in regards to standing against militant islam/islamification of this country so some looked into the BNP,its not a crime n dont automatically make someone a racist it just means theyre trying to find someone thats willing to listen n as the main stream parties have done their best to alienate people n ignore the ever growing crap that comes from the islamic community it drives some to the BNP.
    That though doesn’t mean they are BNP now n deffinatly not BNP hierarchy.Many left the BNP when the EDL was formed as the EDL was saying more of what people were thinking.
    C’mon norfolk man open back up n lets debate about stuff.
    Cool.

    August 21, 2011 at 4:59 pm

  56. trinovante

    Yes it was but that was before the birth of the EDL,would you like me to explain?

    August 21, 2011 at 5:00 pm

  57. NorthEastEDL

    No surprise there then. You seen something you didnt like and shut it down instead of debating!

    August 21, 2011 at 5:00 pm

  58. mark thomas

    @ norfolknonaligned…I’m sure BNP have many many email addresses.let’s please unban trin and have a free debate without fear or favour

    Mark

    August 21, 2011 at 5:02 pm

  59. i@

    fact is if you identify one group, generally of a certain ethnicity, as ‘the problem’ then you open yourself/group out to racism and that is what has happened with the edl. the growing amount of openly white nationalist ‘infidel’ groups spawning out of the edl is testament to this, aswell as the attacks on asians and their businesses, or were these all religious fanatics? infact this is typified by the march in cambridge against the building of a mosque, with the person spearheading the initative being a vocal opponent of radical strains of islam.

    and i’m sorry ‘mark thomas’, not all of the asian youths who come out to oppose you are islamists or even necessarliy muslims for that matter, but i’m sure you are actually aware of that.
    now i’m not suggesting that the majority of those involved in the edl are racist or anything of the sort, infact i like to believe that they’re not but i’m sure that you can appreciate how these things can snowball into nasty directions.

    what i do find strange though is that the enemy has been heavily pointed out to be the rich, so why aren’t the edl gravitating towards that rather than attempting to root out these islamists? this isn’t a call to sign up to some club or group but rather to identify the enemy/ies and forge your own projects.

    i think that this discussion is demonstrating an unsurprising amount of shared opinion, that will undoubtebly be pissing off much of the left, who still strangely expect anarchists to come to their rescue despite all the shit talking and smear campaigns they embark on.

    August 21, 2011 at 5:03 pm

  60. james walsh

    The SWP have nothing to do with socialism to me- there a party of middle managers. If James Doleman is too thrick to work out where the politics of writter is at- fuck him. But being concerned about the needs of people living in Norfolk and rich london liberals collonising the place would give me more in common with anyone in the SWP. Any fucker who wants to give me a more aurthoritain life can get to fuck. And yeah there are loads of mad mullahs in London- and if they have a problem with me saying that in public- they have a problem with freedom – and should stuck out on an island -so they don’t bother decent folk.

    August 21, 2011 at 6:36 pm

  61. Trinovante your email address is on the BNP membership list 2008. Comments now closed. Cheers all.

    August 21, 2011 at 7:24 pm