"I have long argued that the giving of offence, and even hate speech, should be a moral matter but not a matter for the criminal law. That is as true on the football pitch as on the streets. We should always challenge racism. We should also always challenge attacks on liberties in the guise of faux antiracism." Kenan Malik

Countering Nonsense In The Occupy Movement


From Paul Stott’s 9/11 CultWatch blog

From speaking to activists over the past few days, it is interesting, and slightly concerning, to note some news emerging from the Occupy movement.

Spreading from Occupy Wall Street, a series of similar occupations have occurred internationally. In the UK this has included an attempt to occupy the London Stock Exchange, and events in regional cities like Norwich and Birmingham. Opposition to the disastrous decision to bail out banks on the verge of financial collapse has now found a degree of articulation.

There are of course issues and debates around this. Speaking to Anarchists like Ian Bone at the Anarchist Bookfair yesterday, there were concerns that the importance of the Occupy movement was being greatly overstated, usually by sympathetic activists who want it to be so many things. It’s particular form has also been criticised , whilst the vagueness of its anti-capitalist message has been condemned by libertarians, who draw a distinction between what they see as capitalism and corporatism/crony capitalism .

A more serious debate is now on-going about how to deal with the presence of conspiracy theorists at occupy events. The financial crisis is naturally something easily explained by the likes of David Icke, who has been vociferous in his condemnation of what he sees as Rothschild-Zionism. To Icke, no discussion of 9/11, or the financial crisis, can be made without reference to this conspiracy . Such nonsense makes all protestors easy targets for media exposes, hit-pieces on their ‘racism’ or their portrayal as addled thinkers. The serious questions raised about government economic policy, capitalism, our financial system and government relations with it, are in danger of being ignored in place of arguments about anti-Semitism or the sheer oddness of certain protestors.

There is only two responses to this. I discount ignoring them, because they will not go away, and numerically will form a significant number of the protestors in many cities. For such thinkers, the financial system is one of the issues – they certainly will not abandon it. Icke has been calling on the human race to get off its knees for so long, when they actually see it happening, their movement is energised

One response is to allow the Icke types to dominate. To walk away and do something else instead. The second response, which I know many are now turning to, is to try and counter them. This is difficult, not because their arguments are so strong – they are not – but because arguing with people full of Zeitgeist or Icke thought is not an easy process. They have been exposed to an absolute truth. Those who do not follow it cannot be allowed to simply disagree with them, but become part of the problem as soon as they disagree.

It is neccesary to attack Icke’s anti-Semitism, his ludicrous reptilian fantasies and to ask what Icke has proved in twenty plus years of ‘exposing’ the system. Other than improving his bank balance – the answer is nothing. Events like the banking crisis and 9/11 are actually very simple. Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for attacking New York, and the evidence for US or Israeli participation is nil. The banking crisis occurred because the banks gambled lots of money, and governments who had long dropped any pretence of regulation, bailed out their mates with our cash.

Keep it simple. Because it is simple.

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8 responses

  1. Fred

    “how to deal with the presence of conspiracy theorists at occupy events”

    You feel they should be ‘dealt with’, how interesting, since the ethos of Occupy would appear to be more about people of differing views coming together to share the common ground views, NOT to try and convince each other that we are right on any particular view.

    The Occupy I have been involved with has been entirely welcoming to all views, and is open to discussion on any topic people present feel is relevant. You may be surprised, and hopefully relieved, to learn that this does not result in any one group or individual hijacking the entire movement.

    To feel the need to counter ‘these people’ I imagine you must feel threatened. How very sad.

    October 23, 2011 at 3:18 pm

  2. Danny

    Threatened? Nah, just want to punch in the face anti-semites who believe Jews are in fact lizards. If you fancy a serious conversation with these dickheads you go right ahead.

    October 23, 2011 at 4:55 pm

  3. Speaking of dickheads http://prasutagus.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/occupy-norwich-britain-and-the-laughing-1/

    October 23, 2011 at 5:14 pm

  4. james walsh

    I thought the point of the Occupy movement is that humans are ‘threatened’ my some very dangerious and stupid ideas, well dangerious and stupid to most of us. I guess people with different dangerious and stupid ideas won’t want people attacking their ideas and claim we should all get together as if one happy family so we won’t be on the look out for their socialpathic behaviour. Not questoning ideas is how we’ve got in such a mess- I bet the answer isn’t, not to question some other ideas.

    In other words Fred- you sound like a typical cunt trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

    October 24, 2011 at 12:48 pm

  5. Dear Norfolk folk et al
    here is a link to david ickes view on the infiltration of the occupy movement if you have a mind capable of critical thinking why not take a look you never know you might share his view!!

    and then again you might not either way your human and for that and that point and that point alone I love you xx

    October 24, 2011 at 1:01 pm

  6. james walsh

    Good video- he certaimly understands the nature of money. He put it far better than I could. The Chinese government is more to blaim than the Rostchilds is my hunch. I think he gives it more conciouness than the money system deserves- but it does have the habbit of turning us into biological robots. A world government isn’t necessary- but they are totalition- it’s a religion of their money. He shows that there is plenty of reason for paranoia- and he goes off on a paranoic chant that doesn’t deal with the real nature of human(inc political) relationships. He misses out out the nature of management and class relationships. But I have to argee with miss point at around 19.30- they will get manipulated in making the problem worse if their are not questioning everything that is being put for as solutions.

    He is clearly taking the sort of bollocks that Paul is complaining about at 20.30 when he blaiming Mossad for the behaviour of those Islamists who want a different gobal dicatorship that is even worse- and he tell’s others about the danger of being manipulated! Any smart polititian could shoot down everything sensiable he’s just said about money by attaching it to what he said on Mossad and Libya (which was rather over simplistic!).

    He’s right about the those people wanting human control- and then he doesn’t seem to be able to deal with how this mass human control is reflected by human behaviour at lower human levels. Those managers (inc plenty of socialists) reflect this macro relationship at a micro- he doesn’t go into any talk about that.

    He doesn’t seem to understand Huxley. When he talks about gobal climate control- while he has a point- he doesn’t cover the political reasons at all for the support for such a campaign- I’d say it seems from the class interest of those who want to manage the working class etc (and us lumpens who just refuse to be part of all the shit) and those who have a class interest (though having more moey than the rest of us) want to confine us like little white mice in our city cage.

    I did like his near the end rant about repeating the words of others- if he had scripted it- he would have ended with that more or less at the end.

    I think he’s a nice guy – but he shots himself in the foot still and he’s had 20 years to learn how not to.

    October 24, 2011 at 3:08 pm

  7. Marcus Clarke

    Perhaps Matthew Greenwood is trying to suggest mentally ill people don’t have moments of clarity and talk sense every now and then?

    October 25, 2011 at 11:26 am

  8. villa

    what a cock , what a looney tune mentalist , he needs locking up , sectioned under the mental health act , completly mindless drivel from a toffy nossed lardy dar retard , he is a complete fucktard , and you take this monkey seriously , its no wonder people dont like the occupy movement , if your taking on board dick wads like this you will get no sympathy from me , i do feel sorry for him , he is a delusional paranoid

    October 30, 2011 at 6:13 pm

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